Freedom of What?

At least they talked about it

I read an interesting article in the  Times concerning prayer at the City of Gainesville council meetings.  While the posers (yea, I said it)  seem to want separation between church and state, they seem to be rather confused as to why.  Several of them think that the separation of church and state is in our constitution; well, I reread the constitution and I just don’t see it.

The closest thing you can find in our U.S. constitution is in the First Amendment where it says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”  The atheists have been making an assault on this ever since.  In 1947 the first successful case was brought to the U.S. Supreme court in Everson v. Board of Education.  This is where the justices unanimously said that the Constitution required a sharp separation between church and government and thus became the beginning of the assault on prayer in schools.

Now, I must admit that I am just a little better than a C&E Christian, but it is only because I also go to church on Mother’s day.  From what I know, our governments need help, and it wouldn’t hurt if they asked YHWH-jireh, Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Budda, or something else. The fact is: the vast majority of us believe in a God, so why wouldn’t we ask for guidance at our meetings?

While I digress, I must admit that I am happy that there has at least been discussion; well at least there was in Gainesville. I went and looked at some of the communities in our area to see if they still do an invocation.  I have been told that almost all of them do with the exception of the City of Flowery Branch.  When I asked a former Mayor of Flowery Branch when they stopped doing invocations, his response was he thought they still were.  In spot checking several of the agendas (they are online back to 2008), it appears that invocations were being given up to April of 2010, then no longer.  It seems like this was about the time that Mayor Hirling retired to Florida and Lutz left for County Commission.  Nowhere did I find the same kind of discussion in Flowery Branch that they had in Gainesville.

I think the question of prayer or not to prayer is important and I commend the City of Gainesville for taking up the discussion, unlike Flowery Branch who just buried the question under the rug.

Hugh Hall County Akston

  3 comments for “Freedom of What?

  1. The Truth
    March 12, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Well Hugh, I guess Flowery Branch can’t do anything right in your eyes. They seem to need some order over there. Hope they can find their way.

    With that being said, we now have to disagree. Religion has no business in school. It has no business there because you can not vary it to fit the individual beliefs. I have seen the huge difference in the popular religious beliefs in the U.S. and they are no where near similar enough to have a prayer amongst a diverse group.
    ESPECIALLY when there are kids involved.
    If the school did a Muslim prayer at the beginning of the day, the parents would be outraged and probably have everyone fired as it hit national news.
    So in what religious fashion is the prayer at school?
    What brand do they use? Because NO brand is going to fit all of the children. You have NO RIGHT to teach children a religious belief in school. By it’s very nature that is against what our country was founded on. Parents tell their children over and over, LISTEN to your teachers! We command our children to obey the teachers, and to LEARN what they are teaching you. We teach our children to listen and learn from the teacher. So now, if we practice a different religion than the school has chosen to add the their curriculum we must re teach our children to listen and learn EXCEPT when they are teaching religious beliefs? Oh and yes, it IS teaching. Because you are demonstrating a pattern of behavior to children and THAT it TEACHING them.

    Baptist, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Pentecostal, or what ever, we have rights. We have the right to choose our own religious views. If I choose not to believe in God, then you have no right to contradict me to my children. The same goes if my God goes by a different name.

    So poser or no poser, talk about it or don’t, I have to say that I think they need to keep religion out of the way of education. Unless you can divide up the entire school during prayer time based on their religious belief or disbelief.

    OH WAIT… that would cause religious persecution, wouldn’t it? Keep your Bible at home and teach what you are paid to teach.

    The Truth

    • Cromwell
      March 18, 2012 at 10:45 pm

      I would like to agree with a very valid point in this comment, ” You have no right to teach children a religious belief in school” that is in a public school funded by tax payers hard earned money. The kids though are being subjected to it on a daily basis. It is a religion in disguise. One that is masquerading as “science”. One that is the official state sponsored religion, and demands adherence unto its doctrine as well as allegiance unto its administrators. This religion is commonly called, evolution. Evolution has been accepted by many as to being a science, and not a faith, after all “scientist” say so, remember for something to be science it must meet certain criteria. 1. It must be observable. 2. It must be able to be tested. 3. The results of testing must be able to be repeated. If a process, idea, theory or evidence falls outside this criteria for empirical science, it must be deemed as a belief. Let’s look very briefly as to what the kids are being taught from their teachers, starting as early as K5.

      1. All mater in the Universe, that’s allot of stuff such as planets, suns, trees, cars, people, elements, water, gas, animals, ect.. came from a small dot that started spinning around until it blew up some 20 Billion years ago. Where did the “dot” come from? We do not know. What caused the big bang? We don’t know that either. How is the years determined? It was an educated guess, but hey it had to happen after all we are all here, even if the so called big bang creation violates several know scientific principles, such as the 1st. and 2nd. law of thermodynamics and the law of angular momentum.

      2. 4.8 Billion years ago the Earth was a hot molten mass that had formed out of some of the dust clouds from the big bang. The earth then started the cooling process. It began to rain for the next many millions of years upon these cooling rocks (remember rocks are non- living matter) the water pooled into areas of the earth. These pooled waters enriched by the minerals from the rocks that had been rained upon became an “organic soup” or what is known as spontaneous generation; that would be life from non life, remember the rocks.

      3. These single cell rock thingies after many millions of years ( the secret ingredient is long periods of time) eventually changed into sponges, then starfish, then fish, then amphibians, then reptiles, then mammals and after years and years of accidents, misfits, death and suffering we had the emergence of natures crowning achievement; man. Who has the ability to reason, establish government to rule over him and at the end of his days of labor return unto the elements from which he came from to be recycled into some other kind of life form; isn’t very much hope in this gospel are they.
      Evolution is a belief system because it teaches origins of life. Evolutionist believe this is how it happened. Their system is built upon what they think happened and not upon any empirical evidence, even though it is claimed that there are mountains of facts to substantiate the claims. Their is no evidence of stellar/ evolution, or what is known as the big bang. There are no evidence of planetary evolution, new planets forming. There is no evidence of cosmic evolution, that is new suns forming. There is no evidence of element evolution, that is all the known elements coming from just two, Hydrogen and Helium that formed at the big bang event. There is no evidence of macro evolution. one type of animal changing into another type. Their is evidence of micro evolution within its own kind, or what should be called a variation. We see this in nature. The problem is they take this real evidence that is observed and try to validate the other five.
      There are only two options as to why we are all here, either a cosmic accident and millions of years of changing with a man being answerable unto no one but whom he sets over himself with no hope, no future and no responsibilities or divine act of creation by a Creator who endowed upon the created certain rights that can only be taken away by Him, hope of redemption, a promise of a bright future for those that trust Him, and the warning that men will be held accountable for their actions. Which option would you choose? For the last 50 years America as a nation has rejected the faith of our founders and have chosen a religion. A religion that calls itself scientific propagated in the public school forum. We are seeing the fruits of its labor: corruption, disrespect of others, and lawlessness brought about not by a separation of church and state, but rather a combining of the two. A combination not in the sense most people think of, but a combination none the less.

  2. Hugh Akston
    March 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    The key point is that we need the debate. While this wasn’t necessarily about schools, the legal precedents about prayer are from cases about the schools. These are the same assaults that ban manger scenes from town squares, the Ten Commandments from courthouses, and now prayer. The question becomes, if you draw a line, where should the line be?

    As far as schools go, the Truth believes that I have no right to say a prayer in school. I would say that the fact that public schools exist is not a right, it is a privilege. I believe that the tax dollar should follow the child and if you as a parent did not like the teaching or performance of the school, you should have the right to send your child to a school that does not have prayer. However, as a minority opinion (yours), I don’t think you should have the right to say that the school my kids attend shouldn’t do what 90% of Americans believe. The constitution says that congress (government) shall pass no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion; we know that the government has not established a religion since the Church of England.

    Hugh Akston

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